Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to Faces of Fortitude Behind the lens, A safe space for anyone who's been touched by suicide to share their story in whatever form feels safe for them. Since losing my brother Jimmy to Suicide over a decade ago, I've realized that the more we can normalize and use care in having difficult, sad, and intense conversations, the more welcome people are going to feel with connecting with each other at their scariest moments. It is our hope that when you're faced with your own mortality, maybe at a moment when the pain doesn't feel survivable, you will remember that there is a space where you heard other people sharing similar stories of loss and trauma and resilience. And we hope that that space of survivors reminds you in that moment that you're not alone and you decide to stay and fight just one more day. Now, please help me in welcoming the brave guests to this podcast and treat their vulnerability not just with care, but also with great celebration. Thanks again for being here. Let's get ready to go behind the lens. Okay. Welcome back everybody. To Behind the Lens. We are here with Sarah, who was a very recent face, and she's here to tell the rest of her story. Sarah, how are you feeling since your, your big post came out? I know your response was huge and that was helpful because Thank you. You shared it and started conversations. How, how did that go? How are you? Hello. All the things.
Speaker 2 00:01:44 Yes, I am doing well. I, I, you know, transparently was so nervous going in, you know, to our session, um, even though there's, you know, it's, it's my story to tell, so there's no wrong answers, but I think, you know, opening up and being vulnerable in that way, um, was, it's newer to me. Um, I think folks didn't know many of the details. They just knew that, you know, I, my mother's no longer with us. Um, but after it came out, I was floored <laugh> with how many people reached out. Like it was, it took me a day to kind of like process it and all of the just amazing words that people shared. And, um, I think it was a nice moment and a reminder that people are kind once they hear more about each other. Um, and then after that was posted for work, my boss was, she, she, you know, saw it and read it and she was like, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 00:02:50 She was like, If you feel comfortable, we'd love to have you write about, um, for World Mental Health Day. And so I wrote a little similar kind of narrative for our company blog, and I used the, the photos and, and tagged you in them too. And my CEO shared it on his LinkedIn page. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and, you know, people from work were reaching out, like personal messages and it was just, it, it rippled out more than I thought it, it, it would at all. And, you know, it was more of a relief cause I was so nervous. I thought I was gonna sound kind of like a dope but <laugh>. Um, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:03:32 I love that. I want to read what you wrote, make sure and send it to me. I love any way that you can connect with people on such a hard topic, but then to go into where you work and to have people embrace it that way. Cuz right now I feel like so many businesses are just checking boxes around mental health. Right. I see that a lot in my work. It's like, we want you to come talk about this, so then we can say we talked about it. And I just think that's a little, uh, that's a little too easy and co you know, convenient. And so when people like your CEO pick that up and run with it, that's just such a great example of it shows that they care about the mental health of, of their employees.
Speaker 2 00:04:12 Yes. Yeah, it was, uh, I was also equally as nervous to write it, um, you know, for the company. And then, uh, one of the people on my team helped me kind of, you know, word finesse it. Um, but I was just like, you know, click and submit and don't look at it <laugh>. Um, but it was, it was really good. I think it's, you know, while it feels really scary, I think the more that you are able to open up, the more that other people re are also able to open up. And I think it breaks down those barriers of like, just tension. You can kind of read people a little bit more, you know, personally, and, and, um, I just, I, our society needs that right now. So any, any little bit that's sharing bits of our story to help encourage others, I, it was far bigger of a reaction than I thought it was gonna be. Um, but I, I'm very thankful for the experience.
Speaker 0 00:05:14 Well, I think we were talking before we started recording about how there's kind of a collective, um, healing, not, I won't say awakening. I, I think there's a lot of people becoming more aware of their mental health right now because of covid, because of quarantine being by themselves, solitude, all of that. And plus all the other, you know, dumpster fire shit happening in our world. And mm-hmm. <affirmative>, hearing somebody like you share something so hard and so scary, I bet there were a lot of people coming out saying, Oh, I didn't realize this. Or, Oh, I have this connection. This is how I connect to your story. It's amazing how when somebody else is vulnerable and shares something that we can only dream of sharing because it's so scary how easier there's a little bridge that you're like, Oh wait, I can tell this person. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> this person. It's okay. And safe and imagine on a larger scale, if we just would take that one minute. It's, it's wild.
Speaker 2 00:06:11 Yeah. Well, I even had, uh, this interaction with the coworker and I, I don't know if you've experienced it or if someone makes like a little joke in passing, but it's, it's, it was like, Oh, well, do you have a good relationship with your mom? Like, it wasn't it, there was no harm or malice and someone else in the group, these were coworkers, she just looked at him and she was like, Did you not read her blog? Like, you can't say that to her. You know, like, and it's just like, I didn't even know that this person read that for one. And for two, I didn't, I wasn't gonna, I've gotten used to, people don't know. You can't, you can't, you know, blame anyone for, I don't know. I, I think when it comes to comedy and things like that, and when people are making jokes, there's like a line Yeah. They don't know. They don't know. But I, it, it really stood out to me that, you know, this other person was like, you can't say that to her. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:07:09 Love about those moments is that gives, it's such a great, um, example of a moment we can give grace and we can say, Yeah, okay. Or when somebody looks at me and says, I just wanna kill myself, right, because they know what I do, and they go, Oh, I didn't mean it like that. Okay, listen, we can't be that sensitive. I get it. Right. And also, it really is helpful, those situations, if you feel a reaction, it's helpful to just realize we don't know everybody's story. And to have that grace and to be able to look at that person and go, you know what? They can say it, it's not a big deal. How are they to know? But it does bring up a good conversation. We don't know about each other's lives and maybe we shouldn't, you know, blanket terms. I think it's, it's a great opportunity for grace. Like, like it sounds like you gave
Speaker 2 00:07:56 Yeah, yeah, it was, it was just like, came full circle and that happened just this weekend, <laugh>. Wow. So, so like, it's still kind of rippling out and it's surprising me, even people who didn't reach out or didn't, you know, respond to the post or anything, but I know that they read it by the way that our conversations have moved, you know, and oh, it's just, it's kind of cool. It's, it's, you know, all part of our healing process. And,
Speaker 0 00:08:24 And I actually love that you can tell by how conversations have changed. That's very nuanced and awesome. And that's great that you have people around you that are connected like that and are emotionally mature enough to adjust things that way. Yeah. Not everybody can say that, so, Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:08:43 Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:08:43 Well, I'm excited today. I did have, I had a lot of people, you know, I get a lot of people after posts coming into my dms and the people that help me with my Instagram. And sometimes I go in there and answer too. Um, a lot of them were getting, people want to ask questions and like say mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, was she close to her mom? You know, what, what are there siblings? You know, there's just so many questions because I share just a small amount. So this is an awesome opportunity to share your truth and your side because I talk a lot about, um, the stories and when we start digging around those feelings, that's where the healing happens. But it's also where things get messy family members, right? That might have a different version of the story or feel differently. And you and I connected on your, at your session a lot, on our families, on how the families react, shame, stigma, all of that. So I think there's gonna be a lot of people that resonate. Let's set up the story. Before you start, what are you gonna go back and give us a little history? Who are the main players? Where is the story? Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 2 00:09:46 Yeah, Yeah. So I remember when we were chatting, um, it kind of made me reflect on the two chapters of my childhood. And, and they're pretty distinct. It was, you know, before my mom got sick and, and after she got sick in the series of events that followed. Um, and for just privacy sake of the family, I'll kind of spare some of the details on kinda what triggered the, the before and after. Um, but I just vividly remember as, you know, uh, I was in kindergarten and around that time is when her personality and mood and, you know, um, the way that she was treating me as her child, everything changed. Um, and, you know, before her mental illness took over, you know, so for me, this is before kindergarten, I have so many vivid memories of how I choose to remember her as, as my mother. Um, you know, I was her little baby doll. I, she, she was the, the queen of the foam curlers. Like, she had long, beautiful blonde hair. She smelled like, you know, Elizabeth Taylor's white diamond. Like she was really into jewelry. Like she, she was a diva and she was a, she was a beautiful person. And so I was her little baby doll in that, you know, wearing all those tacky Christmas dresses and things like that. Um, but we just have to,
Speaker 0 00:11:20 I have to pause for a second that Elizabeth Taylor White Diamonds, like as soon as you said that, I knew exactly what your mom smelled like. I love that so hard. Sorry, I just had to put that pause in there because that, I love visuals like that. Thank you. That's super helpful. I have a huge visual
Speaker 2 00:11:35 To this day. That's the smell that when I think of my mom, that it's that smell. It's like that in spaghetti, you know, <laugh> <laugh>. Um, but you know, she was really big on, on teaching my brother and I, um, cuz we have a complex makeup of siblings, but my brother and I were closest to her. Um, but she was really firm on, you know, teaching us how, you know, to lead with compassion and care rather than fear. And, you know, like we would spend holidays volunteering with volunteers of America, you know, feeding families for Thanksgiving and Christmas or, or giving out prep. Like that was, that was her kind of way of healing, I think from her trauma. Um, and it's, you know, as I've gotten older, it, I've really understood how trauma just continues to cycle with just with my own case study <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:12:35 Um, and she, you know, like if we were driving home and, and we saw a family or anybody on the side of the street, she would always whip the car around, get the McDonald's, make sure they were fed and good. Like the, those are the memories I really wanna hold tight to on, on who I believe Tina Kamaka was. Um, you know, but again, trauma kind of, it, it, it, it lingers and if there's a, an event that triggers something for some people it, it's not good and it's not intentional. Um, and I knew now kind of reflecting back, I knew something was different with her and I knew it wasn't her fault, but I couldn't, as a kid, I couldn't really pin what was going on. Um, you know, I just remember feeling as if I had to care for my mom as, you know, what I like between, you know, six to 10, 11 ish, definitely before I had my period. Like there was, there was this shift and I, I would have to adapt to her moods and um, you know, to this day I kind of struggle with feeling like I, I'm a burden to folks around me. And I still think it was fun that those little formidable years in those moments trying to adapt to my mom's mental illness, um,
Speaker 0 00:14:03 Can I tell you how evolved and thoughtful of a realization and light bulb moment that is for somebody, Some of us spend our whole lives trying to figure that little nugget out so prompt to you. I'm just giving you that, be proud of yourself for seeing that because I am almost 52 years from 50 and I am just now getting it
Speaker 2 00:14:27 <laugh>. Well I appreciate that cuz I've, I was been working on journaling and looking back at past journalism, one theme I've seen reoccurring is, you know, feeling as if I'm a burden to other folks. And I've, you know, the, the person that raised me and the transition between my parents, I, I hear Rosa's voice saying, You're never a burden. You're not a burden. You're a kid. We're here to take care of you. You know, And I just, it was my reality was a little bit warped in this transition stage of, you know, my mom's mental illness because, you know, in all reality she lost hope. And, and, and in the nineties, early nineties, like mental illness wasn't discussed. It wasn't, I I still, you know, don't believe that it was any of our family's fault in that instance because it wasn't early nineties. It, it, it was the wild, wild west.
Speaker 2 00:15:30 People were, you know, you had to kind of shell things back and, and, you know, show up for your family, especially for women, you know. And so I I really just think that with all the events that led up to that moment, she lost hope and she lost her light and there wasn't a way to navigate through that. Um, and you know, I <laugh> we, we went from having like, you know, the holidays were my favorite because my mom would did the thing anytime there were, you know, for Easter Christmas, you know, all she would decorate the house while we were sleeping. Like that was like, and it, it was like beautiful then, you know, while she, it was really like Christmas was her holiday and not even from a fully religious aspect, even though, you know, we did go to church and stuff like that, but it was more like the, the chachkis and, and the seasonal vibes.
Speaker 2 00:16:32 Like I loved it. Um, but then it, you know, transitioned to the house who was just in disarray, um, in, in, in ways that I still am embarrassed to even bring up because it was, it was really bad. Like my, she completely let go. Um, and you know, then it was just like kind of a series of mental breaks for her and me not knowing where I fit in in the solution. And how old were you as a kid at this time? That man that had, this was like fourth and fifth grade. Um, you know, like just the house was embarrassingly bad and, you know, I, my my dad was a fisherman, you know, and it's taken me a really long time to forgive him because, you know, him and I are best friends now. Like I, I love my dad and I've, I've forgiven him for his role because I kind of transitioned my thinking is he thought we were in kind of like a military lifestyle and the fact that he would travel for work, he'd go up and work in Alaska on boats and mom would take care of us.
Speaker 2 00:17:46 And he was, you know, it, it was, was that was just all he knew since he came to America from the Philippines, like was working on boats to provide for the family. And I had to transition my thinking from why is he leaving me? Why is he leaving us like this to, he doesn't know any better, like this is how he's providing for the family. But I remember, um, he was saying he would come home and just be like so confused on why the house was just in a wreck. You know, like dog shits everywhere. Like it was, it was not habitable at all. Um, and he was like, he was telling me recently, he was like, I remember I looked down at your shoes and you had holes in your shoes and I just wanted to cry because I, I don't know how it be became that like, I don't know when, what happened for you to not be taken care of.
Speaker 2 00:18:43 And he was like, it made me wanna cry and I just took you to the mall and said, you know, pick whatever shoes that you want and, and you just looked at me and you're like, Daddy, I've never had new shoes before. Like, so it was, you know, within the healing process for me it's been kind of almost like interviewing family and kind of getting, understanding the full picture. Cuz I only knew my point of view, which is largely through my mom's lens. And for those who are in that state of mental illness, you know, it was a combination of depression and bipolar. The reality's a little bit different, um, than what's going on cuz it, it, you know, paranoia was starting to creep into her world. Um, and it was, it was kind of scary. Like one of my last few moments with her, um, like before, you know, I got taken away. Uh, she, she thought the house was swarm with, you know, feds. She thought there were helicopters. Um, and she was like, You guys are not taking my daughter. Like, it was, it, it, it it just bubbled up to be so intense. Um, and you know, to to this day it's still hard for me to kind of share that with my dad cuz I don't want him to feel bad. It's this weird kind of, it's it's a weird line to walk because
Speaker 0 00:20:14 It's hard.
Speaker 2 00:20:15 It's, and
Speaker 0 00:20:16 You're holding something that is, uh, very familiar to me and it's, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:20:20 It's the surviving child's need to protect the parents because it sounds like from a young age you kind of had to worry, you worried about your mom, about your house, about everything because you, you never knew what you were gonna get with her. And I think that's very common. Um, I, uh, I have protected my parents around my brother's suicide as well. Um mm-hmm. <affirmative> some of the, the things that we found, writings, journals, you know, there's things that are clearly very mad and clearly very disturbed that I just couldn't, I've decided to keep with myself, you know? And I, and I and I do think that, um, there's, as my therapist Katie says, there's some stuff under there that we should probably talk about. Yeah. Your need and our need to protect our parents from something that is technically they're older and should be able, should be protecting us from.
Speaker 2 00:21:21 Right, Right.
Speaker 0 00:21:23 It's wild.
Speaker 2 00:21:23 Yeah, no, it it, and, and it's, it's weird because, you know, I,
Speaker 2 00:21:31 So after that instance where with, you know, where the house was swarmed and she turned off all the lights and I was clearly some kind of episode and we, she said she wouldn't open the door unless the ambulance was there to take her to the hospital. And so then the ambulance came, I remember these police officers were so concerned cuz they just wanted to see me to make sure that I was okay. And, uh, then we, they brought an ambulance, we went to the hospital. Ironically it was the same hospital that I was born at in Everett. Um, and it was just so chaotic cause it just seeing someone that you love have a mental breakdown like that and you can't understand why they can't reason because that's just, that's how we're trained to think. It was really bizarre as, as, as seeing someone that's your mother.
Speaker 2 00:22:33 Um, you know, they, they couldn't calm her down. And I remember they, they put me cuz I was a kid, they put me with the, um, the people checking people into the ER and they could tell I hadn't been eating. Um, and that was another kind of thing that I heard, you know, with my mom stopping, taking care of me, it was, you know, I didn't look fully healthy. Um, and I remember that's the first thing they said is, you know, you we need to keep this girl some food. And I remember sitting with, with the office person and I could hear my mom just losing it. Um, and it took, I think it was like three or four grown men to put her on a wheelchair. And I watched them inject her with something to sedate her. Like that's, that's how gradual this mental breakdown kind of went.
Speaker 2 00:23:28 And that was the last time I saw her, um, you know, outside of cps, you know, and, and court court visits. And, and it was just, it was, that's when I realized that she needed a lot more help. But I couldn't really understand like why I, my help wasn't good enough, you know, as a, as a kid it was, it was so, it was, it was the weirdest experience and my anger towards my dad for not being around and helping me and being my savior and this chaos went to her. And I was like, Why did she leave me? That's all. That's all. I was like, why did she leave me with all these strangers? And, you know, and so it's, it's taken a lot of time to process that. Cause I will say from middle school and early to early college, I carried a lot of anger around with me.
Speaker 2 00:24:27 I carried so much anger, not even about my situation, but I think it was, it was wide me over others and I, you know, going to school or going to college and being like, Why, why did these kids get it so easy? I've been working my ass off to be normal, normal and public <laugh> and to go through college. Why, why am I having to struggle what I feel like more, you know? So it, it was, it was a lot. Um, but I'm so thankful for the Guardian that I had. Um, she was my daycare mom and I was in her daycare cuz my mom worked at Boeing. She worked really early hours. So my dad worked in Tacoma really early hours when he was in, um, in town and not in Alaska. He worked in Tacoma. So they, the daycare that I went to, I was there sometimes from like seven in the morning to like six at night.
Speaker 2 00:25:27 So I was from, you know, when I was a little baby all the way until I was 18, I was with this family. Um, and so when I was at the, the ER during that episode with my mom, um, they said, Do you have any family you could call? And the daycare mom, one of her lessons was always to drill her phone number into the, the older of the younger kids in case there was an emergency that was, she just had us recite her phone number. Her number was the only number at that time that I knew. And so I called her and she never, she has a rule dinner is off between five and six and I'm not answering the phone. That's when, you know, the answering machines would go off. She would always like unplug it or not listen to it. And I was like, there's no way Rosa's not gonna answer.
Speaker 2 00:26:17 And she did, uh, by, by freak she did, she came and picked me up. I remember she was like, it looked like, not quite pajamas, but like she woke up and came and got me. And to this day I'm forever grateful for her and her family because, you know, it, it was a, a messier situation than I was aware of, of, you know, not getting CPS involved and having a guardian that my dad trusted while the, you know, custody you battle kind of was going back and forth. Um, but I'm, she showed up for me and my dad, like, she, she let me live with her, um, and her family while, uh, you know, while my dad was getting back from Alaska, cuz this all happened, my dad wasn't in the state, he was working in Alaska. So I needed somewhere to go or else I was gonna be put into the CPS system.
Speaker 2 00:27:15 And so it was kind of like in this, in between like gray area that if there was any wrong move I would've been put into the CPS system. And so she, Rosa really, that was some formidable stuff, you know, she kept telling me, You're a kid. I'm, you're, I'm here to take care of you. You know, you don't, you don't need to do anything. You just need to relax and decompress. And, you know, if it wasn't for her, I, I feel like a lot of my upbringing would be very different, um, especially to have a female role model, um,
Speaker 0 00:27:54 That knows what was say.
Speaker 2 00:27:56 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:27:57 Like that's the shame. Especially back then, like she was able to say, this is not yours to hold. Yeah. I need you to be a kid. And that's like, that makes me emotional because it's like, yeah, that is probably the biggest trauma point for you at that age is you're, you just saw something traumatic in that hospital. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and most family members are not equipped to separate the two and Oh yeah, you had a female mother, like maternal figure who spent enough time with you for you to trust what she was saying was true, at least in that moment.
Speaker 2 00:28:36 And she, she was, she knew, uh, I think early on that I had a hard time kind of opening up or even crying. And I just remember like her hugs and her embraces were just like, it would melt all of like my worries away because it was just, I almost as a kid, I was like becoming numb to what was going on around me. Um, and so that transition, it was, I think I was with her about a year, maybe longer. Um, and then I think, I can't remember when my dad also moved in, cuz this was when my dad was learning how to be a single dad and wanted to get a house for me and him. Um, so she let him live with us during that transition period. But I remember having the feeling, I don't even know how to explain it, but I still believe I knew the moment that my mom took her last breath.
Speaker 2 00:29:40 Um, I, I don't know how to explain the feeling. I don't, it, it's almost like that intuition, that gut feeling. And I remember, and again, these, these, these memories, it's hard to fact check them cuz I was a kid. So I don't know if you know what the adults were experiencing was different, the truth. And that's what's important. This is your truth and I think it's important. Yeah, it w well I just remember the feeling. And then there was Rosa, my dad, there was some like awkwardness and then they're like, we need to sit at the table and have a talk. And it was just, I could tell they were, how do you tell a kid that? How do you, how do you explain to a kid what suicide is and, and how do you, how do you, you know, even prepare for follow up questions so I could tell that they were fumbling over who's gonna say it.
Speaker 2 00:30:35 Um, and then I just blurted it out cuz I, I, I remember feeling that and it was, it was more to a point where I don't think I could have been sad. I think I was still processing it. So what did you say? I I, it was something along the lines of it is mom dead? Did mom die? Something like that. But I didn't, I couldn't, I didn't know in what capacity, you know. Um, I don't remember how, how the rest of that conversation went. But the next memory I have is, um, when we went to the viewing of the body, So cuz I didn't go to the funeral, um, I don't, again, there's some dynamics with the adults and I don't, I don't know what was going on, but I didn't go to the funeral. I did go to the, the private viewing of the body.
Speaker 2 00:31:29 And I was so scared because I had like an entourage. I had. So because I was in or in the CPS system and going through the court thing, I had a guardian at Liden, which is basically a court, a court appointed attorney for kids. Basically they represent kids in court. So I had her, I had Rosa and I had my dad going to this, and I was like trying to psych myself out. I, to this day, I still think I'm really good at self-talk. And I think that was kind of just coping through chaos. Um, but I was like, All right, I'm good. I'm prepared. And I remember walking into the funeral home and my, my mother's older sister, um, she turned the corner and it stopped me in my tracks cuz I never realized how much they looked alike until that, that exact moment.
Speaker 2 00:32:21 And I was like, Oh my God, she's right there. And then I, and they're like, What's, what's wrong Sarah? I was like, that, she looks just like my mom. They're like, No, that's your aunt. Like, you know, But when we walked down the hall, I just remember the hall feeling so long with all the different doors and they opened the door and they're like, You can, you can go in. And I, I, it was like frozen, but I remember once and no one was being really like pushy or, or anything like that. They're like, at your pace, whatever, whatever feels right. And I remember walking in there and she just looked so peaceful. Like it was, it blew my mind like how calm she looked and how happy I felt that she looked at peace because my last few moments with her, she just wasn't at peace in her mind.
Speaker 2 00:33:18 And, and, and you know, what was going on in her reality and it, it was, it was kind of a breath of fresh air to see her at peace even though it was such a sad moment. Right. Um, but yeah, the after that it was, it was a lot of, you know, being it at angsty teenage kid trying, trying to navigate the world and, and not be angry at other people. Not angry at a lot of people. I was upset at how, how the adults in the, in the situation didn't show up for me. That's, that's truly how I felt. I was like, where, where were all the adults? And, and you know, over time I've realized there's, it was a complicated situation. It was a complicated set of dynamics, but I still felt like I was just a kid. I was just a kid that like <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:34:13 Period, period. Like that is such a valid, you've gotta, I forget, I know you told me your chart at some point, but you gotta have a really strong Libra placement in there for you to be able to see those other sides. Like you, you were a kid put a period at the end of that. Yeah. And how a kid, period, adults should have been there. Yeah. I hope you give yourself time with that. Or you have in the past because who the, the amount of things that kids carry and it sounds like you carried for your dad for, remind me of the social worker's name because we talked about her in your session and you were hoping you could find her at some point.
Speaker 2 00:34:51 Yeah, Karen, her name's Karen Glassman and she lived in Bellingham. I've tried to find her. I, I don't know that woman. She was incredible. And um, I recently went on a road trip with my dad for 10 days to Vegas and you know, a lot of road trip time was a lot of talking and he was, we were talking about some old things and again, it's hard to talk about these things with your dad. He's very, you know, stereotypical like no feelings, barely a side hug kind of thing, you know. Um, but we were talking about Karen and he was like, she was so crucial and, and us navigating the situation and she was so calm and she, she was so, she showed up for you. I just, it would be cool to see her and, and let her know her work and it wasn't done, wasn't done in vain or anything for what she was thinking to check off boxes. Like it really made an impact on my life.
Speaker 0 00:35:53 Um, anybody that lives in Bellingham, if you know what Karen? Glassman? Glassman Glassman.
Speaker 2 00:35:59 Glassman.
Speaker 0 00:36:00 Yeah. Glassman. Yep. It's a small place Washington, so you never know. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:36:04 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:36:05 So after that we talked about a few milestones that you went through, um, and then just navigating things with friends, college, um, your anger, your dad, your family. I would love for you expand a little bit on that in what you feel comfortable.
Speaker 2 00:36:21 Yeah, I mean, you know, it was the biggest point that made me super emotional and, and kinda fueled my sadness was realizing that I was gonna graduate high school and my mom wasn't gonna be there. Um, she was such a big champion for us and, and, and wanting, she would talk about like, these milestones while you're a kid, you know, and realizing that I was gonna graduate high school and her not see it and celebrate that with me was, that was really hard to process. And then, you know, getting, going to college and going through a lot of these things, um, and, and my family, not many of us have navigated the collegiate system. So it was, it was a big deal for me to graduate college too, because I felt like I navigated so much of it by myself and many of us kids do because it's so complicated.
Speaker 2 00:37:21 Um, but I just, I, I wish I could have celebrated that with her. And I, I dream often, even though the idea of a wedding scares the shit outta me. I don't wanna be the center of attention, but if she were there to ever see that, if I were to ever choose that path, you know, there's these little moments, but I, I've kind of, it sparked my relationship with my dad and to forgive him and accept, you know, him for who he is and, and not ex you can't change people. You know, you, you, the more that you carry the anger and the resentment and the, you know, misunderstandings of someone's point of view, that's only weight that you're putting in your, your bag. That's, that's it. You're not proving a point at all. And, uh, it just, it's been kind of this weird cycle of like kind of letting things go and letting live and accepting people for who they are.
Speaker 2 00:38:23 And I'm just trying to celebrate as many moments as I can with my dad and, and kind of, you know, what I, I was living so much in the past and wishing for so much, much of, of the experience I wouldn't have with my mom that I wasn't living in the present. And I don't think that I would be the person that I am today if it wasn't for these situations cuz it really did make me be more present and be more loving and understanding and just like such a cheese ball with strangers is because like, it's just so much easier to lead with kindness, but it's just sad that it takes people who go through trauma to experience that.
Speaker 0 00:39:06 Ooh, what a gem. You just dropped Sarah. I had a different mic, I'd drop it. That wasn't more expensive, but it's super real because you're meeting your dad where he's at rather than where you would hoped he would be for you.
Speaker 2 00:39:20 Right, right.
Speaker 0 00:39:22 That is, that takes a level of humility and like removal of ego that my fire signs aren't sure how to handle all the time. So I appreciate that wisdom because I think it so important for us all, all of us to, like, I had to remember, you know, like my dad had his heart broken by my mom too. Like we all right, we all have these processes and sometimes we only see our own your story right. About your dad. I I have a soft spot in my heart for your dad because of the story of when you first started your period. Yeah. Like he, if you'll tell it to people that maybe didn't see the post, my whole heart went out to him because it was like he didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2 00:40:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, being had, you know, at
Speaker 0 00:40:10 This point, Correct.
Speaker 2 00:40:12 Yes. Yeah. So my mom had passed. I was, um, you know, this was around the time that my dad got our first house where we were, it was just him and I. And this is pre-teen, you know, just a mess of a time for a teenage girl in normal circumstances, let alone a single dad who's just now having to get full custody of a teenage girl. Like those two dynamics that was not set up for success
Speaker 0 00:40:41 And he's grieving the suicide of his wife. Like
Speaker 2 00:40:44 Exactly. Yeah. There was just so much going on in his world that I, I just don't, I I don't know how he did it because, and now I'm like, that's like 10 years from my age and he was handling this all by himself. But yeah, so the whole, you know, learning how to dress myself, <laugh>, getting raw, uh, getting, um, you know, learning how to do makeup, those were all things I kind of had to figure out myself. Um, but when it came to the time that my period started, I didn't know what to do and my dad didn't know what to do and so he just said, Let's just go to Walmart and, and I maybe ask someone there to help you cuz I, I just don't know. And that was one of those situations where, you know, at, in the moment I was like, what? Like, you don't know all the answers, you're an adult. Um, but now in hindsight I'm like, he was doing them the best that he could with all that he had access to, you know.
Speaker 0 00:41:49 So it sounds like there were so many pivotal life events that of course were so much more difficult because you didn't have your mom there, but also you had a dad that was, I feel like he probably didn't know you as well as he could have because he was away a lot. Yeah. And he didn't know things. Um, but now looking back, I, I just think the most, a amazing takeaway from this, um, episode already for me is that at such a young age you were aware of the ability to have compassion and kindness towards other people, even people that you were so angry with in your family. Yeah. And I would love just, you know, I think you're prepare for part two of this when this comes out, you'll have even more people cuz you know, I think we have a lot, I don't know about you, but there's a lot of trauma tourists in this arena of people that love to hear the gory details, but aren't always there for the hard conversations. And I think the people that listen to this podcast know the importance of the hard conversations. And so you might get some more, um, yeah, I would love to just get a closure of where you are now in your healing process and how connecting with people around suicide or and or the topic, um, has helped you get to where you are this second, you know?
Speaker 2 00:43:12 Yeah, I mean, I think where I'm at right now is still reflecting on how my experience is unique and has shaped the way that I respond. That's, that's what I'm kind of working on right now is kind of how I respond to things and, and acknowledging that a lot of my trauma responses are still there. Um, you know, we're, we're never healed. And then it's like, you're, you're normal. Um, it's, it's all kind of a spectrum and, and, and a cycle that we're processing through. And I'm realizing, you know, we were talking about it earlier that <laugh> I still feel like this, this strong feeling of burden for other people that I have to constantly remind myself, people are in their own worlds. People are so, so deep in their own worlds, in their own minds that it's 90% has nothing to do with us.
Speaker 2 00:44:12 Um, and I think kind of understanding my dad's point of view was one of the next big changes in my healing process is cause I, I was so upset with him, you know, I was angry and I was sad that my experiences, um, with my family weren't like the kids from college where they had very traditional, you know, holidays or, you know, they had all these, these stories with both of their parents. But part of my, my healing is, is accepting people's role in, in my situation and understanding that they were probably doing the best that they could given this, this circumstance. And, um, I'm really coming back to this kind of, I don't know if it's a mantra or this just kind of reminder that, you know, you're, we're, we're really in control the way that we respond to people and we're, we're really in control of, you know, how how we wanna navigate, um, the darkness in the world and, and how much that we wanna let go.
Speaker 2 00:45:26 Um, and I think the letting go, I, I felt a hundred pounds lighter once you hit that point of letting go and acceptance rather than hitting the point of being a victim. And I often, I often related being a victim and sharing your story is the same thing, right? And, and I realized that you're not being a victim when you're sharing your story. You're sharing your truth, you're being a victim, or at least in my point of view is probably not right. But the way that I've been processing is when you are a victim where you, you lean into the victim side, it's, you can't do X because of X, you know? And, and when I'm telling my story, it's not saying I can't do something because of my past. It's accepting. I am who I am because of my past, you know? And so it's, it's been a lot of, a lot of journaling and a lot of meditation and a lot of downtime with my dog was under my chair <laugh>. Um, that's kinda get there,
Speaker 0 00:46:35 Sarah. You should be so proud of yourself. I just like, as somebody who considers, you know, you part of our faces, family and very sibling, like, I feel like, um, that's huge. Like, I'm proud of you. Like, I don't think a lot of people are able to look inside their grief with a level of humility and a level of like, um, take your ego out and take, take out those things that hurt you. Not because you don't want to feel them, but because you have to understand kind of where it all comes from. And I can't tell you a more appropriate season fall and winter as we're all gonna go back inside to start working on those reactions I'm realizing to create, and I've been talking about this for the last like year of having this level of cur childlike curiosity with our reactions and saying, Whoa, yes, that was really big.
Speaker 0 00:47:30 Why was that so big? Maybe there's something underneath there and having a curiosity rather than an anger or frustration with ourselves or judging ourselves. And you have been able to do that sounds like from such a young age, which you're such a model for that in, in my opinion. So, um, you should give yourself more credit. Cause I think before you said it, you disclaimed and said, I'm probably wrong about this. And I don't think you are. I think that you're probably ahead of many, um, people that experience trauma at a young age because you are very emotionally, um, mature. I think you told me you were a cancer though, right?
Speaker 2 00:48:06 I'm a Pi
Speaker 0 00:48:07 A Pisces even more there. We I was just
Speaker 2 00:48:09 About to say you're
Speaker 0 00:48:10 So emotionally mature that there's a, there's a, all that water and empath is, um, yeah. Doing that. So good for you.
Speaker 2 00:48:19 I appreciate that. I've always kind of identified myself as kind of a heady person. I think it was kind of a form of the escapism, what a young age between reading and just kind of getting lost in my own thoughts. Um, but it's, it's been a cool journey and I, I think that folks who have experienced trauma should be so proud of that trauma because it, it's a chapter that, that ends and then begins, uh, like our rebirth and you know, like I was saying like with, you know, comparing yourself to kids in college and you're just like, why didn't I get the silver spoon? You know? But, but the, the folks who go through trauma have so much to be proud of because we've overcome, you know, these invisible boundaries and these invisible hardships that people just don't know. And, um, I'm, I'm really proud to be part of the, the Faces family and, and be, you know, able to speak with you about this.
Speaker 0 00:49:23 Thank you Sarah. I feel like there's a level of grit and fortitude that we all have. Um, because I look at people and I look at, like, I remember sitting in your session and you just started listing, it was not just your mom's suicide, the family suicides that had happened. And I remember just going home thinking the amount that this person has not only endured and survived, but thrived and really come around it with a level of healing maturity that some people can't get to because of their capacity. So thank you again for being here, for sharing so openly and for having your own boundaries with what you wanted to share and how, because I think that that's also very, very, uh, mature and important. And, um, I'm just proud to knowing you and I'm excited to share this, this with everyone and yeah, I'm just gonna keep happy.
Speaker 2 00:50:16 Yeah. Yes. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. It's always a pleasure to connect with you.
Speaker 0 00:50:28 Thank you so much for listening and holding space for the stories and heart spaces shared in this episode. I encourage you to visit the social media pages and websites of our guests as well as support their projects and endeavors that have sprouted from their pain. If you would like to apply to be a face in this project or are struggling and need help, please visit our website at faces of fortitude dot a RT for information on how to apply and visit the educate page on my website for a thorough list of support options. And until next time, please remember, this world is such a difficult place to live in right now for so many people. We never know what someone is going through. I hope you'll find a way to be softer with each other and yourself, and harder on the systems that are trying to silence, hurt and erase us. Take care out there and stay safe.
