Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:02 Welcome to faces of fortitude behind the lens, a safe space for anyone who's been touched by suicide to share their story in whatever form feels safe for them. Since losing my brother, Jimmy to suicide over a decade ago, I've realized that the more we can normalize and use care in having difficult, sad, and intense conversations, the more welcome people are going to feel with connecting with each other at their scariest moments. It is our hope that when you're faced with your own mortality, maybe at a moment when the pain doesn't feel survivable, you will remember that there was a space where you heard other people sharing similar stories of loss and trauma and resilience. And we hope that that space of survivors reminds you in that moment that you're not alone. And you decide to stay and fight just one more day. Now, please help me in welcoming the brave guests to this podcast and treat their vulnerability, not just with care, but also with great celebration. Thanks again for being here. Let's get ready to go behind the lens.
Speaker 1 00:01:30 Welcome back everybody. I'm so excited to introduce my guest today. She is a suicide loss survivor, a mother, a daughter, and a board member on the AFS P local chapter here in Seattle. Annu is the newest face in the project, and we both have a similar loss. We've both lost our brothers and she is here to share the rest of her story. Her face is post one up last week. And, um, now we're sharing and hearing the rest of her story. Annu. Thank you for being here and being willing to share more of your story.
Speaker 2 00:02:05 Yeah. Thank you for having me and thank you for, for listening and giving me the space. And I'm very, um, I'm very excited for this project.
Speaker 1 00:02:14 Are you, uh, how are you feeling after, after last week after your faces? You're, you know, I, I ask people, you know, share if you're comfortable and I've never really, um, had any feelings either way of people decide to share. I just know it's a great tool to start conversations and wow. Your post really had so much engagement and so many people were so affected by it. How are you feeling a week later?
Speaker 2 00:02:38 Yeah. Um, I'm St well, even up until like, I think it was yesterday or two days ago, they were still, it was still being shared and I was just, I'm astonished at how, how much conversation and engagement there was. I was, I was definitely overwhelmed with the response. Um, I didn't, I didn't think that was gonna happen, but, um, but I'm, I'm so happy and I'm so glad that it, it did. Uh, a lot of people told me that I started conversations in their homes. Um, a lot of people messaged me, um, that I haven't spoken to in years, or even seen in years share their stories where, where I had no idea that even happened to them. Um, so I thought that it was just incredible, like the amount of support that came from just even directly from my community. Um, like just on my page, it was, it was amazing. Um, and then I went on yours too, and then I saw everybody commenting and I was like, this is, this is, this is just incredible.
Speaker 1 00:03:30 I, I can tell the engagement and feedback. My, my social media manager, I was like, should I put some money behind it? Should we promote it? And they were like, Nope, you're, it's great. It's has its it's gotten its own wings, like it's being shared across. And it was just, it, people are resonating with authentic vulnerability. I think it was your husband that actually said it because I thanked him for sharing it in the, in the DMS. And he was like, there's just that authentic vulnerability that people are just connected to. And you just, you have just such a lovely, natural way of sharing that. So thank you for sharing. And this is a next level of sharing.
Speaker 2 00:04:08 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:04:08 How are you feeling? Are you nervous?
Speaker 2 00:04:11 I am. I think, you know, every, I, I, it's not often that I share the story, that's the thing it's because you know, there, I I've been given space to share it, obviously within my family, but it's one of those things. It's where like people feel uncomfortable and people don't want to continue to hear it. And that's the problem with, you know, our community or my community, um, is the, the way things are said and, um, the language that's behind it. And so it it's, it annoys me sometimes because if I do bring up my brother in any sort of way, sometimes people kind of pull back and I'm like, why are you pulling back? If anything, this should be most the most uncomfortable for me. <laugh> like, cuz I'm thinking about right.
Speaker 1 00:04:57 Isn't it interesting how we say it? People are like their response. I don't know about you, but my immediate reaction is it's okay. And you're like, wait, why am I making you feel better right now?
Speaker 2 00:05:09 <laugh> yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:05:11 It's asinine
Speaker 2 00:05:12 It's so yeah. So anyways, I just, I think, you know, I'm, I'm nervous to actually like say it again, but I've been building up towards it. Like I've been the past like week, I've just been really thinking about it and um, you know, it's made me sad and at times, but it's also made me feel empowered to share it and to continue to share it. I don't want it to be like 10 years on the road and I wanna feel the same way about it for the rest of my life. You know? Like there's, there's a healing element to that. Like I don't wanna forget that feeling. I don't wanna forget my brother. I don't wanna forget what happened. I don't wanna push it under the rug.
Speaker 1 00:05:52 I, I think that's a great way of looking at it. I, um, I want to remind our listeners that I, I talk a lot about having a rhythm in these conversations and knowing when we're at our capacity for hearing traumatic things. So, you know, 10, 15 minutes into your story, I'll probably pop in and we'll just take a breather and talk a little bit and discuss what you've talked about so far, just so people can stand up and stretch. And it's just, there's a lot of weight in all of that. So I'll, I'll be here to help us, um, listen to our capacities and bring you back if you stray off topic. Because I do that all the time when I'm telling my brother's story, cuz there's so many things that we remember or that come up that we haven't thought about for so many years. And um, so first let's start with, where are we? What year is it? What city is it? Who are the main members of your story that you're gonna be talking about?
Speaker 2 00:06:50 Yeah, so it's um, DEC, uh, it's January, 2019 and um, we live in Kent, so it's always in Kent, Washington, um, and, and always spread out for work and stuff into Bellevue and is Aqua. Um, and then Seattle as well. And I think the main people that we're gonna talk about are probably my parents, my husband, and then my brother and my best friend Nita, who was, um, heavily involved in trying to figure things out that day. Um, so that day I, so on January 31st, which was a Thursday, I was working and I usually get off around like three or four and I had a friend desk person call out. And so I ended up having to stay, um, until I had to close the office at seven and on Thursdays, um, me and my husband and three of our other friends, we did this weekly dinner.
Speaker 2 00:07:46 So we would each host at our house and then we'd, um, we'd have a, a show that we would watch. Um, and so that Thursday was my friend, my friend soccer, he, his house was in, or his apartment was in Bellevue. And so that's where we were gonna go after work. And so obviously I was gonna be late, um, because I had to close the office and I had managed another office in Bellevue midday. I had a meeting there, so I had to go there and then come back and so ended up getting into a little fender bender. Um, I was just frustrated that day because I'm like, I was so much going on. Like, you know, I wanna make this dinner with my friends. I've made a commitment to this cause I actually get to spend time with them. And that's the whole reason we were doing it.
Speaker 2 00:08:23 Now I have to work and I got into fed better and I have a whiplash. Like it was just the perfect storm. So I wasn't feeling great at all. And I remember leaving my office and going to S's apartment. And the minute that I walked in, all my friends were waiting there for me to start dinner and the show. And I walked in and looked at them and I immediately started crying just because my day was so shitty. And they were like, whoa, we weren't expecting that. Right. Because that's so out of character. And so, um, and so they were just, just, you know, they sold me. They were like, it's okay. Like, you know, your day's over now. Like it's fine. We ended up eating. Um, and then I get a text message from my brother and it said, I love you sister. You're the apple of my eye.
Speaker 2 00:09:07 And I text him back. I'm like, oh my God, I had the shittiest day. And this made me smile. And I didn't think anything of it. We, you know, ended up wrapping up dinner. We went home. Um, my mom had texted me that night saying like, Hey, Ru's still not home. That's my brother. And I was like, well, he's probably just at a friend's house. You know, they stay up late boys. They were doing their thing. Um, and then the next day, my, and my dad never like he never worries or not, not okay. Sorry. I shouldn't say that. It's not that he doesn't worry. Um, cuz he does, he's a dad, but he, he gives us our space. Right. And so he called me the next morning around like I wanna say eight-ish and he said, Hey, Ru still hasn't come home. But he sent me this text message saying, I love you dad.
Speaker 2 00:09:56 And then my mom got a text message too. And I was like, okay. I was like, well I don't think there's anything to worry about. Let's just give him a couple more hours. You know, he'll probably respond. You probably fell asleep, he'll wake up and then, you know, let's just figure it out and let's go from there. And then it was like, so then I started texting him. I'm like, Hey mommy, dad are worried. Like what the heck are you doing? Like, you know, where are you? I'm texting him, all this stuff and they're being delivered. So we have iPhones. So, you know, you see the blue and then around, I wanna say like nine o'clock or nine 30 or 10 o'clock ish, like pretty early morning. Still they go green. And that's when I started to worry and I was like, something is going on now and I don't know what it is and that's and so we were frustrated.
Speaker 2 00:10:41 So me and my husband headed over to my parents' house and his car was there. His room was there, like everything was in his room. Um, and we were, everybody was trying to get ahold of him. And then I finally texted one of his friends and I said, Hey, you know, what's going on? Like, have you heard from him? And he goes, we played basketball yesterday. So now this is Friday. So Thursday, you know, that was the 31st. Now this is Friday, February 1st. And he said, we played basketball yesterday in the morning. And then we, I got this text message in our group chat saying, you know, love you guys. You know, you guys are the best, like just all this affection from my brother. And I was like, okay, now this is like kind of freaking me out. I still didn't think anything of it.
Speaker 2 00:11:29 I thought he just had runaway and we went into his room and I saw, and this is I, I didn't, I had forgotten this detail. He had this, um, Victoria, BC, uh, gardens pulled up on his web browser. He had deleted everything else off of his computer. And I was like, what what's going on? So I, I ended up texting a couple people and you know, now they're calling the gardens and, and we're just, we're just still waiting for him. Then I called my best friend and I said, Hey, uh, and I had this fear in my voice and she recognized it and you know, and she, I was like, Hey, is there any way that you can like ping his phone? Cause I don't have him on location. Can you ping his phone? And she works at T-Mobile. And so, and I, then I started crying and that's when she knew it was serious.
Speaker 2 00:12:14 And she was like, okay, yes, I'll try to figure something out, you know, with our team. Um, so she ended up getting in touch with so many people and then they figured out a way how we can do it through our account. And it took like an hour, you know? So we were just kind of idle. And that night we were supposed to actually have dinner with him. And so I was texting him still. I'm like, Hey, like, are you still on for dinner? Are we meeting at the restaurant? Like what's going on? You know, no response. And then just hours just, we're going by so fast. And it's now like the afternoon, you know, it gets dark around like three or four. And so it's around like, I think I wanna say like three or four, our reservations were for seven. And I said, we're still going to the restaurant.
Speaker 2 00:12:54 I wanna go to the restaurant and he's gonna show up. And um, we're still looking for him. And then me and my husband was like, I think we need to wait to hear his res like a response from him because what if he isn't in the country anymore? Like what if he did go to Canada? And I was like, okay, whatever. And then the ping, the, the phone pinged in Bellevue. And then it started to, to go west into Seattle on I 90. And so we had friends like, you know, saga pulled up his car and, and he was driving on I 90 trying to find my brother, like in an Uber, cuz that's what we thought his, he didn't have his car. So he was in an Uber and then, you know, I was like, I, we need to go downtown. Like we need to go to all of his favorite spots and see if he's there.
Speaker 2 00:13:42 And you know, my husband was like, we just need to wait. We just need to wait. And he was very hesitant. He was like, let's just wait. And then he was cutting up cardboard downstairs. And then I ended up starting to like marinate meat. I was like marinating lamb. And I got so fed up and I remember I was on the verge of tears. I was like, we need to go. We need to go right now. It's either you come with me or I go alone and it was dark. I was emotional. So he didn't want me to go alone. So he finally got in the car with me, we headed into Seattle, we went to a couple of breweries and where he usually would spend some time and um, nothing. Right. And then his phone turned off again and my husband was like, we need to go home.
Speaker 2 00:14:22 He was like, let's just go back to mom and dad's house. If you don't wanna go home, let's just go to mom and dad's house. I was like, okay, we had taken the exit and my aunt called me and she was hysterical. And she was like, she goes, I knew, oh my God, I can't believe that happened. And I go, don't worry. We're gonna find him. We're gonna find him. Don't worry. And she goes, you don't know. And she hung up on me. Then my dad called my husband picked up and he, I don't, I, I was like, what did dad say? He goes, let's just get home. And we were two minutes away from home. He said, let's just get home. Um, they, they found him, you know, and I was like, oh, okay. I was like, okay, that's great. Like, I'm glad that they found him. And, um, we, as we were pulling in, the police was pulling out. They were just going down the driveway and I was running to the garage. I was opening the garage and I was like, I can't believe it. Like, oh my God, like what? You know, he's just put us through so much today. I was just irritated. I was so frustrated in that point in my husband grabbed me and he said, he's gone.
Speaker 2 00:15:32 Like he's gone. And I remember I fell onto the concrete and um, I immediately then went into my house and my mom was hysterical and she was throwing up and my dad was just stone cold. Like he just didn't, he was so flushed. And I just remember that scene in my house. It was, it's like slowmo in my head. And um, then my dad said the words, he said he shot himself. And, um, it was, we were so confused. We were like, what, what, what? Like, it just wasn't, it wasn't, it just was so unreal. And you know, slowly then we, um, I finally, I told my, I texted my friend and I don't even know if it made sense. I don't even know if I wrote the correct words. And then people just started pouring into our house. You know, everybody started coming and it just, I, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't even realize that what had happened and my
Speaker 1 00:16:36 Family, I would love to take a minute here if we can. Yeah. Cuz that's a lot for you. That's yeah, that's a lot. I wanna sit in that in the moment because I felt it the most powerful when you crumbled that moment. I wanna cuz that's the moment that I feel like as survivors, we don't get to sit in very long because we dissociate, we don't remember a lot. Like there's a lot of cloudiness around that day for me. Um, do you, I remember that, I remember weird things from that moment. Do you remember like the, the fabric in the carpet of where I was when I found out and I just stared at it and just lost myself for, I don't know how long, um, I remember my dad, the story cuz I wasn't there. My dad vomiting. And so it's like these different reactions from different people are so hard seeing your parents crumble makes it hard for you to crumble.
Speaker 2 00:17:38 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:17:39 Um, fully.
Speaker 2 00:17:42 Yeah. Um, I think the shock is what hap like what was hard for me because I was, I was in that shock. I still didn't believe it. You know, the police had brought his ID and the belongings that were in the, in the hotel room and you know, and I'll get to that now because then we had to figure out the story of what happened. You know, we figured out his timeline and um, and it just was unreal. Like I was like, how is his ID right here? He's not gone. And I just remember being in my parents' house and it just suddenly feeling so empty and not like home. I grew up in that house. Me and my brother both grew up in that house till this day. We haven't even changed his room. We haven't touched anything in his room, you know, we clean it. But um, it's, it just, it just felt so empty, you know? And um, yeah, I just didn't know what to believe. I didn't even believe it. So it's like, and then when people started showing up and started asking questions, I mean, that was the, I was like, I don't know. Nobody knows.
Speaker 2 00:18:57 And
Speaker 1 00:18:57 So that's such a hard part of suicide loss for me is the people that want to know details. Yeah. The, the trauma tourists, I get that they care. I get that they wanted so badly because it helps us grieve to understand the puzzle pieces, but to the family that experienced it, it feels so invasive. Yeah. For people to say, you know what happened, even we, you and I just talked about it a few days ago in response to your post, how people just don't know what to say. And they say so many incorrect, wrong or insensitive things because of that. Um, I, I, it's interesting. I, I just took some notes while you were talking and wanting to take this breather before we get back into it. Um, you said your dad was as cool as a cucumber before because that's just the dad kind of role to like, make sure everything's cool.
Speaker 1 00:19:53 And then he turned very stoic afterwards. I know that it's a, it's such a masculine cultural thing to not express, um, that, and I remember seeing them briefly at the out of the darkness walk when we met that year, um, and them feeling, they were standing by themselves together kind of watching and looking at everyone with their beads. And so many people openly crying. And I could tell they were really trying to find a comfortable space for themselves there. Um, and I think seeing you openly express, like this is probably really good for them on some level, um, to learn, to start doing it themselves. You said that everybody got text messages. I wanted to take a minute and tell you how lovely that is because not everybody gets notes. Not everybody gets anything after the fact to know that was I part of this, were they mad at me? Were they unhappy? Were they, you know, all of us are constantly trying to put the puzzle pieces together and the fact that he had the capacity and wherewithal in those last moments to remind you all of how he felt about you.
Speaker 2 00:21:09 Yeah. It's yeah, it was amazing. I mean, we started cause I asked every, I mean I asked everybody, I was like, you know, have you heard from him? I even, I even reached out to his ex at that point. And I was like, have you heard from him? And she, she hadn't. But, um, but it was me and my mom, my brother, um, his three best friends, which it was in a group chat. And then my cousin who was like his best friend and, um, they were, they were like this, they were like, they, they were always just buddies. Like they were the same age. Um, they had the same interests, you know, they spent so much time together and um, and that was it like nobody else besides those few people. And um, and yeah, I just, you know, I'm happy he did that. Cuz I have that text message still. I still have his, I still have his thread. I never, I, I made sure I was like, this threat is gonna roll over to my new phones. Right. Because I don't wanna lose it.
Speaker 1 00:22:11 Um, yeah. That's something that I regret losing that. So I'm so glad that you kept that. Yeah. You have to hold onto those things after we don't really have anything else, you know? Yeah. So I, I, it's interesting cuz we didn't talk about this in your, your photo shoot, um, that you did recreate his timeline so you could figure out what happened once again, I have some of those pieces from my story, but not all of 'em. So when I hear people that are actually able to find those puzzle pieces, it's, it's got to help you heal in some way to just know that part of the story. I would love to hear whatever you're willing to share.
Speaker 2 00:22:44 Yeah. So, so that was my day. That was the perspective of my day. Um, so basically on January 31st he had gone and played basketball with his friends in the morning. That's something that he did often, um, at the, he went to the gym, played basketball, you know, he would come home. He, he had, um, he was gonna start work that day. Um, he had work, he worked Monday through Thursday from three 30 to seven 30. So he had work that day. But um, obviously he never made it. He left, I, I guess my, from the timeline he had left around, um, noon like between like 12 and one because my mom and my dad came home around two and two 30. And so he left before then my grandpa's always home and he just told my grandpa, you know, he said bye to my grandpa and um, and hugged him.
Speaker 2 00:23:35 That's what my grandpa had said. He goes, he hugged me and that doesn't always happen when we say bye to our grandpa, you know, just cuz he's, he's always with us. And yeah. And so then, um, he posted on his, and I remember seeing this on social media that day on Thursday, he went to our temple and he posted a picture of, of the temple, um, him sitting inside of it. And um, and then that's when he had gone to the Marriott in Bellevue and, and that was the crazy part is that on Thursday when I was feeling shitty and I was, you know, having this bad day, my brother was literally right across the street. My friend's apartment faces the Marriott. And so if you look, if you're sitting on his couch and you just look over to the right it's right there, it's literally a stone throwaway.
Speaker 2 00:24:28 And so he was there the entire time and that's what made me feel so shitty afterwards. I was like, how was he just like literally right there? And I didn't know. Right. Cause he never shared that with me. And um, that still gets to me like how close we were when everything was happening. And we got into his email and he on in the Uber ride, he wrote a letter of recommendation for his best friend. So he had this like beautiful recommendation that he had just written about him. Um, we found in his email that he had booked this hotel room twice. So it looks like, it sounded like he, you know, wanted to attempt first and then, and then he was like, no, no, no. And then he did it again. And this time he actually went, went through with it. Um, and he, his, his last meal was from lunch lunchbox laboratory in Bellevue.
Speaker 2 00:25:29 He had a cheeseburger and um, fries, like cheesy fries. And um, and then, you know, he, then he, he passed away and, and the police, the investigator had marked it as, um, anywhere from like nine to 10:00 PM on the 31st, so on Thursday. So he wasn't even alive on the first, when we were doing the search and that's why we weren't getting any responses. And um, you know, they had told us that the only thing in his room was what he was wearing that day. He had his shoes, he had his, um, shorts and his t-shirt and um, his chain and we got the chain back and we got the shoes back, but everything else was not acceptable to give back, um, the gun that he used. And he had a bottle of alcohol that he didn't, he, I think they said that he took like a shot, maybe it was open, but it was full. Um, and then he had a picture of our guru and then a note that said, I'm sorry, like right next to the bedside. And that was it. And everything was neatly, like, everything was so neat on the table. Like he had organized it and, um,
Speaker 2 00:26:51 And, and, you know, and then we ended up having to read all the, you know, the report and stuff. And that was hard knowing how he was, how he was found. Um, but yeah, that was, that was that. And that's what those were the details we found out. Those were the only details we knew. Um, and then afterwards, you know, we, I had, um, we had requested medical records from his therapist and,
Speaker 2 00:27:19 And she released them cuz my dad ended up getting power of attorney and I read through them. And it was interesting because when he was going through everybody in our community thought it was because of the breakup that he did this and me and my parents never once blamed it on that. We never blamed it on that breakup. We never blamed the act. We never did any of that. And um, and because I knew, cause I know my brother, you know, and it's, and, and when I read the notes, he did talk about that initially. But like, you know how therapy works, like when you start going to a therapist, like you feel like whatever the surface problem is,
Speaker 2 00:28:00 As you go on in your sessions, you realize there's so much deep rooted shit that you haven't dealt with and you have to unpack. And so that's what he was doing. He, he had the problem, he, he missed his ex. He, he, you know, that was his issue that he went in in with. And then in the notes, he ended up talking about how he had a, a fear of, of losing people. And because there was just such a, we had to deal with a lot of stuff, um, growing up in terms of my dad having to leave and you know, and not because of our family, but because of our government, cause he was an immigrant in this country. Um, and that was the biggest fear. And that's where every, all this fear was like stemming from. And I just, and then going back now, thinking of all these different times when he was like a teenager and how hard it was for him, cuz I was, I was six years older than him.
Speaker 2 00:28:51 So anything that was happening in our family, you know, I had that extra six years to, to figure out and like process. He was hearing things and nobody was actually telling him things. And so he was trying to put it together himself. Right. And I never recognized that. And I remember there was, he's had like couple of freak outs and I just remember one where, you know, he was having a day and me and my mom went into his room. He was probably 13 years old and he was crying and he like jumped on his bed and he was like, he, he put his like hands over his head and he was like, you guys just don't know, you guys don't understand like what I have to go through. And I was like, what do you have to go through? And we just dismissed it because back then, like mental health, wasn't a thing.
Speaker 2 00:29:33 You didn't have a mental health <laugh>, you know? Um, and we just said, okay, we wrote it off as him being a teenager and him just, you know, being a teenager boy, like that was it. And we never, we never got him any help. And the messed up part about that is when I was 19 years old or when I was 20 years old, actually I went through a big breakup after, after being in a relationship for four years. And I didn't know who I was like I, throughout my teenagehood, I just never knew who I was. I was, I was always lost and I started therapy and I remember not telling anybody, I remember calling the insurance company and saying, Hey, is my mom gonna know that I'm starting therapy? Cuz I don't want my mom to know cuz everybody's gonna label me as crazy.
Speaker 2 00:30:24 But I didn't, like, I knew that there was a resource and I reached out for myself, but I never even considered that for my brother. And I don't know why, like I I've reflected on this and I've talked to my therapist about it now. And I'm like, why didn't I, when he was a teenager cuz you know, well he was like, when he, he was 14 when I was 20. So it's like, how did I not even capture that? Like we were going through the same shit. So how did he not feel the burden of it? Why was I feeling the burden and why was I able to get the help? And he wasn't at that age and it's just like, it's a blame game. Right? But it's like, those are the things you that I think about now in ways.
Speaker 1 00:31:04 Well it's also cultural. Like it's, it's the, no matter what culture you are, the men in any culture are not encouraged to feel their feelings and work on it. It's interesting because of the time that you were talking about when you were younger having to hide therapy and not talk about it, that is look at a look at how far we've come. That's amazing. But also like those conversations aren't encouraged with our younger siblings because we're told that it will influence them or make them make them, you know, make a big deal about something or you know, not encourage them to really talk about their feelings. And it's, it's something that it's why I connected with you immediately as an older sibling, I think is because I saw that protection that you were, you were expressing of, you know, he was just so young, how could he think of anything like that? Like this is, and I thought the same with my brother. Like there're always gonna be like 12 in our brains. You know what I mean? There're always gonna be these little siblings that were like gun. How did you even have that?
Speaker 2 00:32:15 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:32:16 You know, my brother's suicide was so elaborate for me. It was like, how did you even think of this? But you know, they are adults in our, even though in our heads, they're always gonna be these younger siblings to us. And I think that, um, we don't ha we won't, we don't wanna talk to them about the dark stuff that's happening to us because we're the older sibling, we're the one protecting them from it. And I think you probably, it sounds like you were just not wanting to burden him with it. And when in reality, of course our younger siblings need just as much help as we do because you're right. There's their narrative is exactly the same. They're going through the same things we are parental wise and family wise. Yeah. You don't wanna believe that they need that help. I think at least I, I didn't wanna believe that.
Speaker 2 00:33:02 Yeah. So
Speaker 1 00:33:04 We talked a little bit in, in depth over, uh, your session about the funeral, because this was the Seattle snowstorm of 2019 January. That, and I would love to tell, talk a little bit about that day, because I know for me, my brother's Memorial is pretty much of a blur. I remember a few things people said to me and things from the photos, but it's such a hard day. That's really supposed to be for everybody else. Yeah. And the family, it's not really for the, the person themselves, if that makes sense. Um, but I would love to hear how that day went for you because, um, it's often pivotal for many people.
Speaker 2 00:33:44 Yeah. Um, so it was a week, so it was on February 9th. So it was a week after everything had happened. Um, and that was, yeah, it was at the worst snowstorm and the day of, or the night before, I just, I didn't know if I wanted to say anything or not. And I, you know, at that point, honestly, I didn't even know if it was gonna happen because the snow was actually really bad. Um, somehow people from California, people from Canada, Chicago, Australia, they all made it in. Um, and so everybody was at our house and I remember, you know, barely sleeping that night. And I ended up when I did go to sleep, I had this like vision of my brother in his white tee and his chain and it was so vivid and all he said to me was it's okay. And then I ended up like waking up and turning around and I pulled up my notes in my phone and I ended up writing a speech.
Speaker 2 00:34:43 And then, um, I was just waiting for like it to be, you know, like eight o'clock. And so I was like, that's when we were gonna get up, everybody was gonna get up and, you know, start getting ready and, and whatnot. And I think, I think it was around like 10 or 11. I, I can't remember honestly what time it was, the actual Memorial. Um, and then a couple people had like texted and saying like, Hey, is it still on? Um, because you know, there's, we can't get out and we just wanna know, we wanna try to make the effort. And so, um, if it's still gonna be on and I, and I would reply like, yes, and we got there first because there was like the viewing portion of it. And so we were there for a while, just like the family. And, um, we had like friends and stuff who ended up giving their trucks to us and, or like, you know, they, they brought us and, um, they got us down and we actually live on a really big hill and that hill closes down every single time.
Speaker 2 00:35:37 There's like a drop of snow. Um, or like a snowflake it's like so funny, but the funeral home is down that hill. And so we had to take, you know, alternate routes and everybody who had any type of four wheel drive, they came and picked us our family up, like one by one, they got us to the funeral home. And then I, you know, we were just sitting in that front row and that was, and that was that. And there was, um, we had like our priest come in and, you know, he was saying, you know, he was doing the prayers and, um, then people started showing up and they started paying the respects and going, and I didn't, I wasn't very, I wasn't paying attention to that. Just like I saw it from like the corner of my eye. Right. It wasn't until I got to the podium and I was going to see my speech, I looked up and every single seat is filled and there's, it's people are pouring out into the actual home.
Speaker 2 00:36:29 Um, and then outside. And I was like, I, I, I think, I, I think I said, wow, but I don't remember. Like, I just remember like, looking like I was shocked. I was like, how did so many people make it in people from like Bothel and like Bellevue and down south Tacoma and, you know, Lacey and like, I was Seattle and it's like, everything was shut down all these streets, you know? And like, we don't have a very good slope plowing system. Um, and so it was, it was incredible how much community support showed up. There was support for my brother. There was support for my mom and my dad, you know, people, there was people coming to support me and it really just showed how impactful his death was. And, um, yeah. And then, you know, I said my and
Speaker 1 00:37:23 His life
Speaker 2 00:37:25 And his life. Right. Sorry. Yeah. And his life,
Speaker 1 00:37:27 No, I'm just reminding you, like, I think it shows how much he was loved.
Speaker 2 00:37:32 Yeah, no, absolutely. And, um, yeah, it was, it was just unreal and it was, and people kept saying, I think, I think they ended up saying like, it was like 400 people that showed up and I was like, wow, that's incredible. And you know, I was just overwhelmed that entire day. I just, I don't even remember that day after that, I think I ended up falling asleep when we went to temple. It was my first time like dozing off and just falling asleep. And I, you're not supposed to do that at temple <laugh>, but it was such a, um, yeah, it was such an emotional heavy day. And I think,
Speaker 1 00:38:15 Um, I think so many of us around memorials, um, want there to be poignant moments, want there to be some, you know, break in the clouds that we can kind of. Um, but I, I think that it's so important that you were present for yourself and you remember like your ability to rest and your, the people that showed up for every member of your family and like, um, how, I, I know we talked briefly culturally about how the grieving period in your culture is 30 days, but how quickly it, how different it is here, because really it's like funeral and then that's it like yeah. Clean event. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:38:55 You know, my parents were telling me, they were like in India. Um, they're like for an entire month, like people will continue to come and it's, it doesn't stop. Like, it's always the same amount of people that come and here it's like, everybody's working everybody's has their own lives. And so you can't expect that. Right. And I was very fortunate because my two friends ended up staying with me and tan at my parents' house. Like we lived at my parents' house for like a month after the fact. Um, cause I didn't wanna leave them alone. They didn't wanna leave me alone. Luckily people were able to like work remote and it was, it was, I, I will never forget that, you know. Um, but yeah, but slowly everybody had to return and it was like, basically like the day after the funeral, our house just became empty and it was like, then you that's when you really sit in it. Right. And, um, and I just remember, like I said, it just felt like I, I, after I came back to my own house, I couldn't go there for like six months. I couldn't go to my parents' house for like six months.
Speaker 1 00:40:00 Really?
Speaker 2 00:40:01 Yeah. It was a, it was a long time I wanna say like five or six months for sure. Um, my, I would just say mom and dad just come over here, please. If you wanna see me just, just come over here. It's a, it's like a eight minute drive. Um, and uh, yeah, because it didn't feel like home. It didn't feel like it felt super empty. It didn't, it didn't feel real. And I remember the first time I went back and I went and just sat in his room and I was just looking at everything. And then I just had so much rage. Then I started looking through his stuff and I was like, I need to find clues. I need to, I need to know why. And it was just that, you know, denial. I just had that denial. I was like, I like, I don't get it. And obviously there wasn't anything. I found a bunch of stuff. I probably shouldn't have found <laugh> but
Speaker 1 00:40:49 Yeah, same. I think that's the big sister in us and I, nobody in my family, they all thought I was wild. They were like, why would you wanna read through his journals? Like, that's just like, self-harm like, and I was like, no, I have to know everything. And again, I, I think I read some things I wasn't, I shouldn't have, I think I, um, there was, I saw a lot of sadness, but I, it, when I, when you were talking about people just leaving and, and it, it just says so much about how we process grief in the us and how we handle discomfort. Yeah. Um, and uncomfortable conversations in general. Um, but you, you know, I, a lot of people talk about like, time stood still when my, you know, loved one took their own life, but the world kept going and I was so mad at it. But you were, this happened right. Bef you know what, a year before quarantine basically. So you were, you know, March, 2020 is when we all went into quarantine. So you, you grieved in quarantine that there had to be a double edged sword to that.
Speaker 2 00:41:55 I grieved and I had children <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:41:58 Ooh. So you didn't get a break, you didn't get a grieving break
Speaker 2 00:42:02 And you know, and I'm oddly okay. With that. I'm very oddly okay with that because it was, I think, well, I was very upset. I was very sad and it, and I knew my brother, all, he wa there's like so many text messages. My, my brother wanted my brother, the minute that I got married, told me I should pop out babies. And he was like, I need a niece. I need a nephew. Like, come on, you gotta go. And I'm like, bro, like guys need my husband, need a chill. Like we need to do our thing. And I remember him telling my mom, he goes, why doesn't she just have a baby? We can take care of it. Then she can go travel the world, like she wants to. And I was like, that doesn't work. It doesn't work like that. Um, and so I was just very upset.
Speaker 2 00:42:42 And I remember like me and my husband, we had just bought the house. My brother actually sold us our house. And this was the last house he sold. He was a real estate agent. And um, this is the last house he sold and he was super proud of it. And um, you know, he was excited for us to build this home toge together and he was going to be here and he was already starting to do that. Like we saw him and, and the it's funny, cuz me and my husband just started talking about like, okay, like, you know, our kids are gonna be older and now we have to find a new house. We're gonna have to find a new space, a new house, especially in a school district that we want them to go into. And I can't shake the feeling that I actually wanna leave this house, even though we're outgrowing it already. I don't wanna leave this house because this is the last place I have memories with him. And um, I'm sorry. I think I'm going off track. I don't remember the
Speaker 1 00:43:32 Question. No, this is not off track at all. This is a natural track. I didn't want, I, I think it's natural to want to hang on to everything that they touched or had something to do with or were part of with you. Yeah. Because after, because I can tell you as somebody who's been grieving over a decade, that those things do go away and you don't have anything else to hold onto after that. So you wanting to hold onto this house. Absolutely makes sense. I was even in my head while you were telling me, I was like, don't move, don't move, don't move to your house. I would want, I that's what I would do just yeah. Until I was able to grieve it.
Speaker 2 00:44:07 Yeah. And um, yeah, so, you know, and it was crazy because I was so obviously stressed out with this whole entire situation that we had, you know, I was grieving and so I didn't think I was gonna get pregnant. Um, but I had already been off birth control since that year, before, and then in December of 2019. So yeah, like 12 months later basically, or, you know, 11 months later I was like, I just ended up taking a pregnancy citizen. I was pregnant. I found out on December 29th and I was my emotions for my first pregnancy were, so I was, I didn't know how to feel like I, I went downstairs and I was like, babe, where pregnant? And my, my husband's a 49ers fan and I'm a Seahawk fan. And he was watching a 49ers game. And I remember he just like looked at the screen and he looked at me and he's like, huh, he looked back at the screen and then he shut the TV off. And he's like, what? And he was like, babe, that's awesome. And I'm like, yeah. And he hugged me and I felt so empty. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:45:08 <affirmative>
Speaker 2 00:45:09 I felt so empty. And I was like, this is so amazing. But at the same time, because my brother's not gonna be here for any of this, you know, he always talked about, oh my gosh, when you get pregnant, I'm gonna gain all the sympathy, weight with you because I'm gonna take you out to everywhere. He was a foodie and I'm a foodie. I love like, we just love food. And we always used to try out new restaurants. Like that was our thing. And he, you know, he would try them out by himself and he would tell us to try them out. Um, and, and so it was just like, that was so sad to me. And then like you said, like time was still standing still. And then everything was like moving on. Then we had our son and then we got a dog and he, he always wanted a dog.
Speaker 2 00:45:53 My mom would never let him have a dog. Cause my mom was like terrified of animals. And um, and we got this dog like six months when my, my son was six months and then I ended up getting pregnant again. Um, in 20, 20, 21, I got pregnant again in June and then I had a miscarriage and we found out when we were in Hawaii that I had this miscarriage. I mean, I had it in Hawaii when we, uh, when it happened. And then in October, again, I got pregnant with my second son. And so it's like two years of this. It's like nonstop and, and, and the second pregnancy wasn't actually planned it, it just ended up just hap or second and third weren't planned. It just ended up happening. And so it's like, your life is moving on. Excuse me. So fast. And yet it feels like everything that happened with my brother was just like last week, you know? And I, um, I, I just think it's so it's sad. Like, it's just, it's just very sad. I don't,
Speaker 1 00:47:01 Yeah, you, you didn't just deal with the grief of, and loss of your brother in quarantine. You dealt, it was like death, birth, death, birth, like you were literally grieving the loss of your MIS. I mean, that miscarriage cannot be just brushed over. Like that is another grief on top of your already grief that you're not being able to take care of, like someone that is grieving that doesn't have an infant, because I've talked to plenty of parents that are in this project that talk about having young children or being pregnant when this happens and how the nothing stops for you,
Speaker 2 00:47:42 Nothing
Speaker 1 00:47:43 In your body and world keeps going.
Speaker 2 00:47:45 And I think I wanna, I know we have to wrap up soon, but like one of the things for me, you know, we're very family oriented. And so whenever we needed anything, the reason why we even moved to Kent was because of my family. And, and whenever we're, whenever we're needing something, we're there for each other. And so the hardest parts of motherhood were the times where I was left alone with my child or my children now. So I'm now I'm going through it all over again. But in the beginning, when I just had my first child, you know, that person that I wanted to call was my brother, cuz he had the most flexibility in his schedule and that's what he wanted in life. Right? Like he wanted to like help take care of my children. And that is still very hard to me.
Speaker 2 00:48:30 I still pick up the phone, I still reach for my phone and just wanna message. Hey, can you come over for like 30 minutes? Cause he would, he would drop everything. And he would like, I know that cause he is done that prior to me having children. So, you know, those emotions, I don't like grieving, never ends. And that's what people forget. People give it a timeline for some stupid reason. And I don't, I've never understood that. And it's just like, you learn how to deal with it in every transition of your life. And, but you can still sit with those same emotions and it never lessens. And that's what I've learned. And I've totally come to accept that. Like my grief is my grief and I'm not gonna let anybody be like, well it was like four years ago, it's coming onto four years. It doesn't even feel like four years.
Speaker 1 00:49:17 Okay. But for the record, everything under five is still fresh in my mind. Like it's still a fog, any, anything under five years because you, and also, um, as far as I'm concerned, you are on a new parent timeline, which everything is different. Like because you, everything is having to be halted. Um, I honestly like I'm, I'm not surprised that you are taking your time and really having to hold that space for yourself because a lot of people don't, and that's where we get the depths of the different depths of postpartum and people really kind of struggling. That's why your parents are probably worried about you now and like wanting that space, you know, you wanting that space is just everybody grieves differently. And um, I do think, I hope that you're able to find some space for yourself. You know, down now four years down the road, the, the pain doesn't change, but your strength, what you have capacity to hold.
Speaker 1 00:50:24 I called it like lava tears in the beginning when I, I started this project, there's those tears that come right after, um, that you can't really control and they feel very hot and you just feel very, very panicked and they're scary. And now when my tears come, they're less scary and that's, that's the time it's the, pain's still the same. We just become stronger to be able to compartmentalize them and deal with them and control them. Um, and your timeline should be your own. How do you feel now? How do you feel like your grief has changed? Like just going forward for anybody else, listening to this, that's lost a sibling or maybe maybe in the first year or two of their grief. Um, how do you feel going forward when you're talking to people now, especially people that are connecting with you because of your loss and maybe they have a loss that they've been afraid to talk about?
Speaker 2 00:51:21 I think the biggest takeaway is not to suppress the loss or the grief. And I think those are two different things, right? Cause the loss is what actually happened, but the grief is what you have to process for the rest of your life. And I think culturally it's, it says, you know, like in our, in our holy book it even says like when a death occurs, like you, we shouldn't be sad. Like it was meant to happen. And you know, now they're, um, they're flourished into something better. They're flourished into a new world and um, they have to start their life again, which is fine. Like I get, I get scripture and words and I get religion, but put that aside and really feel what you need to feel, sit with what you need to sit with and go through the therapy, whatever that may be for you.
Speaker 2 00:52:12 Um, because I think if I hadn't done that, I would probably still be very, you know, I, I don't know what I would do because I'm not gonna say that I've never had a negative thought or I haven't had, um, a sense of leaving this world because my brother's no longer here. Or even prior to that, like even when I was, as teenager, we all have negative thoughts. And, but it's, it's a matter of just holding that space for yourself and knowing who you can turn to. Um, for a long time, I didn't know who to turn to. And once I found the therapist that I have now I'm able to talk freely with my husband. I'm able to talk freely with friends, but I know who I can talk to. Right. Like I know who will hold that space for me. Right. Um,
Speaker 1 00:52:55 Without fear of retribution or fear reactions.
Speaker 2 00:53:01 Exactly. And yeah, just don't, there's no timeline, there's no timeline regard. And, and this, this is for any loss, like any loss, there's just no timeline for it and yeah. Your life will go on, but don't, you know, I, I don't wanna forget this sadness. I really don't.
Speaker 1 00:53:19 I don't think you have a choice <laugh> yeah. But also, but also I agree because it it's, it's the part of them that we will always remember.
Speaker 2 00:53:28 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:53:29 You know, um, thank you again for being here and for sharing a story that I know is painful, but I'm here to tell you that the more you share it, the easier those words will start coming out of your mouth. And, um, you start to really unpack your own process around telling the story and what, what reactions you have and why and unpacking all of that. I'm here for your journey. I'm really excited. I'm happy to have met you. I'm so I am so sad that we met this way. Yeah. But I love connecting with other people who have had a similar loss because I learned so much, um, just about grieving and about sibling hood. And I think you, and I can talk in further later about the sibling process and how we really aren't really thought about in the grief process. Um, but that could be a whole other episode because I think there's a lot of content there. So for now, um, thank you again for being here and, um, yeah, I'm, I'm excited for the world. Of course.
Speaker 2 00:54:27 Yes. Thank you. You're you're doing such an amazing, amazing job with holding space for people and, and allowing yourself to still grieve with them and, and for yourself. And I really appreciate that about you. You're super inspirational and I love that.
Speaker 1 00:54:42 Wow. Both of our brothers are, are, um, our guides. So I truly feel that. Thank you, Annie.
Speaker 2 00:54:49 Great. Thank you.
Speaker 1 00:54:55 Thank you so much for listening and holding space for the stories and heart spaces shared. In this episode, I encourage you to visit the social media pages and websites of our guests, as well as support their projects and endeavors that have S sprouted from their pain. If you would like to apply to be a face in this project or are struggling and need help, please visit our website at faces, fortitude dot a RT for information on how to apply and visit the educate page on my website for a thorough list of support options. And until next time, please remember this world is such a difficult place to live in right now for so many people. We never know what someone is going through. I hope you'll find a way to be softer with each other and yourself and harder on the systems that are trying to silence hurt and erase us. Take care out there and stay safe.
